Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:04/18/2023

  Type:Product Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  I started working with Loudoun Stairs in January 2023 to complete a railing renovation project. After agreeing on the price of the project, I put down a 50% deposit of $3,797.72. In order to get the correct stain, Loudoun stairs requires you to drive to them to pick up the stain samples then drive them back. It's either that or wait for regular mail. This was not explained in advance by the way. Because we had other projects to do and were put on hold, I drove back and forth. I requested someone from the company to come out and look at our flooring to best match our railing. I was informed that they do not do that. They actually asked me to bring in a piece of my own floor. The second stain sample (small size of wood) looked better to my untrained eye so we moved ahead with the project. On 3/20/23, a post in our neighborhood ******** page caused us to pause and question working with Loudoun Stairs. A neighbor was looking to re-do their railings and all the responding posts were horror stories about working with Loudoun Stairs. I reached out to the company with my concerns and the GM, ****, assured me we'd be happy with the project and their product. So again, we decided to move forward with hesitation. On 4/6/23 our materials were delivered for the project. On 4/8/23 we arrived home from vacation. The wood for the project does not match the flooring and I reached out to the company and asked to cancel the project, pick up the materials, and refund me the $3,797.72. The response I received is attached where they agreed. A day later, they back tracked and offered to refund me half of my deposit. I did not agree. On a phone call today, 4/18/23, my husband was met with rude and condescending employees including ****, the GM and ****** the front desk receptionist.

  Business Response

  Date: 05/17/2023

  January 11, 2023 we met with customer looking for an estimate for their stair and rail replacement project.  The homeowner requested a quote to replace their current rail system with square style red oak newels, **** profile red oak rail and chose a satin black square metal baluster with black metal shoe with a red oak base plate on the main stairs and second level of their home.  They also requested us to provide an option to replace their current stair system with tread overlays and provided a "stain" color of "****-Natural" (we learned from a flooring company they used -  it is not a stain it is a clear "natural" SEALER they put on top of stained product to protect the flooring from dirt/traffic (like a polyurethane put on a bowling alley to protect it).  We provided a proposal on 23 January 2023 at 3:28 pm.  They elected to not do the stair tread overlays and requested if we would provide an active military discount.  It is not policy, but we felt we should honor those that serve and asked to provide active duty status documentation.  Documentation was provided and we sent an updated proposal on 10 Feb with the 10% discount taken off of the total.  The proposal attached was signed and return to us on 13 February 2023.

  18 February customer provided website **************************************************************************************************** for the floor sealer.  Again not a stain color.

  21 Feb customer sent an email asking if the "test wood" has been completed so they could pick it up.

  23 Feb we received email from customer stating stain does not match and noted she sent an email with the **** Stain used on the floors and asked if we could use that stain. Her email contained verbiage from the flooring company advising the "stain" name she was providing us is actually a sealer.  

  From: *************@*****.com>
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2023 11:52 AM
  To: ************************************** <*********************@loudounstairs.com>
  Subject: Re: Color match
  
  CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
  
  Our floors were sanded back to natural state.  Then per my previous emails - here is from the receipt:
  
  Sand,apply sealer and two coats **** Mega One to the following dining room, powder room, living room, foyer and closet.
  $0.00
  No stain Natural color -**** intense seal
  
  Regards,
  *******
  

  We explained to customer the "color"  provided us was a sealant.  We made another sample customer came to pick up and she approved the stain sample signing our sample (for us to use in our quality check procedure to ensure product coordinates with sample before shipping) and taking her sample to compare to the product when it ships to the home for installation.

  20 March email thread below contains customer concerns with request for someone to call.  A call was placed and explained how our process works, and advised we had one particularly difficult custom stain with a different customer in her neighborhood but felt - as normal - only one side of the issue was being presented.  The customer chose to move forward. 

  From: **************@*****.com>
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2023 9:06 AM
  To: *************** <***********************************>
  Cc: ************************************** <*****************@loudounstairs.com>
  Subject: Re: Sample
  
  CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
  
  Thanks *****. Appreciate that.
  We do have a concern now that in our community ******** page, multiple houses that have used loudoun stairs to do work in the homes would not recommend loudoun stairs due to the damage done in their homes from the work done. This came from a post where another resident was looking for recommendations. From damaged drywall and unfinished gaps to stain not matching - I am highly concerned. This is not a cheap project. I read the contract and do see that its listed as installation note and thought at most touch up a few things - fine, however the horror stories that are now listed by other home owners - quite scary. 
  Can someone please call me to review my concerns?
  Regards 
  ********************
  Sent from my ******
  
  On Mar 20, 2023, at 8:11 AM, *************** <***********************************>wrote:
  
  Good morning ******,
  
  Thank you for your question! Yes, commonly referred to as plate, this material was included in your quote. Please see attached for a picture example but essentially, we will be replacing your existing plate with the same material you currently have that will be stained to match your approved color sample.
  
  Thank you,
  
  ***************
  - Account Representative
  
  Loudoun Stairs
  341 n. maple ave • purcellville, va 20132
  www.loudounstairs.com
  Office - *******************
  cell - **********
  fax - **********
  
  From: ************************************** <**************************************************>
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2023 7:15 AM
  To: ***** **** <***********************************>
  Subject: FW: Sample
  
  From: ********************@*****.com>
  Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2023 2:38 PM
  To: ************************************** <**************************************************>
  Subject: Re: Sample
  
  CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
  
  Good afternoon,
  There is something I wanted clarification on prior to the work being done. I dont know what this part of the stairs is called, but I took a pic. The base railing maybe? This is of course part of the renovation and want to make sure it was included. When reviewing the contract, I dont see any mention of this.
  Regards
  *****
  
  Sent from my ******
  
  On Mar 2, 2023, at 9:08 AM, *****************@*****.com> wrote:
  
  Thanks
  ******
  
  On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 06:50:27 AM EST, ************************************** <**************************************************>wrote:
  
  
  Good morning,
  
  I will email or call you once the samples are ready!!
  
  Thanks
  ****
  
  From: ***************@*****.com>
  Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 6:30 AM
  To: ************************************** <**************************************************>
  Subject: Re: Sample
  
  CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
  
  Let me know if I'm able to come today.
  Thanks,
  ********
  
  On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 11:46:38 AM EST, ************************************** <**************************************************>wrote:
  Hello,
  Not yet, sorry!!
  Thanks
  ****
  
  -----Original Message-----
  From: ************************.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 11:46 AM
  To: ************************************** <**************************************************>
  Subject: Sample
  Is the sample ready today for pick up?
  Sent from my ******

  2 March the following email was received from the customer approving the second sample we sent out for approval:

  From: ***********@*****.com>
  Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 6:03 PM
  To: ************************************** <**************************************************>
  Subject: Re: Sample
  
  I think these latest samples are great! So when can we order and schedule for install? 
  Regards,
  ******
  Sent from my ******
  

   The install was scheduled for Monday 10 April.  On Saturday 8 April we received the following message (photo uploaded as ******* for BBB photo.jpg; also uploaded photos of the approved sample signed by the customer held against the product we stained for their project - you will see it is correctly stained to the approved sample):

  From: **************@*****.com>
  Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2023 3:25 PM
  To: ************* <**************************************>; ***** **** <***********************************>;************************************** <**************************************************>;************* <**************************************>
  Subject: Materials Delivered
  
  Good afternoon,
  We arrived home today and were excited to see our materials arrived for the railings. We unpacked one board and brought it into foyer where the railings will be installed. Sad to say, this color/stain does not look like the flooring or even to compliment the flooring - I understand the color match will not be exact. Ive attached a picture, but it doesnt even fully show the color tint of a pink/peach hue.
  At this point, I do not want to waste anymore time or effort in this project.  I also dont want your staff to come out and waste a day.
  I would like the materials to be picked up and my deposit returned.
  I emailed previously my concerns and **** and I chatted. I appreciate your efforts, but this product is not at all going to work.
  Regards,
  

  ****************

  4/17/23 see email thread below where customer cancelled the installation and you will see in the signed proposal "cancellations made on or less than 14 working days from the date of installation will forfeit the deposit".  Although we did not have to offer to split the deposit we wanted to be fair and because the initial response to customer is we would reimburse the MATERIAL in full.  

  From: **************@*****.com>
  Sent: Monday, April 17, 2023 8:47 PM
  To: ***** **** <***********************************>
  Cc: ************************************** <**************************************************>; ************* <**************************************>; ************* <**************************************>
  Subject: Re: Materials Delivered
  
  Good evening *****,
  I was thinking about how to make this all work over the weekend. I cannot come up with a good solution. Please schedule a date to pick up the materials as soon as possible. No, I am not willing to meet half way on my deposit and will be expecting a full refund. 
  Regards,
  *********
  Sent from my ******
  
  On Apr 15, 2023, at 9:50 AM, **********************@*****.com> wrote:
  ?How much was just the cost of materials?
  Sent from my ******
  
  On Apr 12, 2023, at 4:26 PM, ***** **** <***********************************>wrote:
  Good afternoon *******,
  
  No problem we can proceed with canceling the order and scheduling it to be picked up. Regarding the deposit, the material cannot be used again as a custom color was produced specifically for your project. I understand the frustrations when picking out a stain color, our policy is that we dont typically allow for our stain team to visit a site as it should be the homeowners decision and not ours as it is not our home, we will review that process for future projects. We purchased the material for your project, we stained the material based on your approval, and the material matches the stained sample you signed indicating approval to move ahead with instructions to schedule an install date.  Also, please see our cancellation policy wording below. We write this out in our proposal, which you signed stating:
                 Cancellations made on or less than 14 working days from the date of installation will forfeit the deposit.
  We want to work with you and request fairness be considered.  We are willing to split the deposit with you.  Although this will not cover the labor and material expenses we have taken on working towards a successful project, we will advise our accounting department to reimburse half of the deposit. We hope you can agree on the fairness of these actions.
  
  Thank you and have a great day,
  
  ***************
  - Account Representative
  Loudoun Stairs
  

  
  From: ****************@*****.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2023 5:49 PM
  To: ***** **** <***********************************>
  Cc: ************************************** <**************************************************>;************* <**************************************>;************* <**************************************>
  Subject: Re: Materials Delivered
  
  Good afternoon,
  I sent my email earlier without reading the full email.
  As I did mention in my email, I did request someone to come out and provide guidance via phone and was told "no, we can't do that."
  I do not want to have a meeting and I do not want to take any more time discussing this - it has eaten up quite a large amount of time and effort and delayed other projects including painting and carpet.
  I would very much like to schedule the pick up of the materials as soon as possible and return the deposit.
  Regards,
  ***********
  
  On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 01:43:27 PM EDT, ***** **** <***********************************>wrote:
  
  Good afternoon ****,
  
  I did, please tell your mom thank you again for working with me when I visited earlier.
  
  In my visit I was determining if any error could be found in our staining process.  What I learned is the stain on the material produced for your order matched perfectly to the second sample you approved for us with your signature on the back and in your email below.
  
  From: *************@*****.com>
  Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 6:03 PM
  To: ************************************** <**************************************************>
  Subject: Re: Sample
  
  I think these latest samples are great! So when can we order and schedule for install? 
  Regards,
  ****
  Sent from my ******
  
  I would like to bring the signed sample back out and go over the sample to the material with you. 
  
  Regarding your suggestions, we do appreciate you giving us your thoughts. The sample size we selected is to make it easy for homeowners to take this sample to their flooring company, put back in the mail, and put in different areas of their homes flooring or stairs to make sure that the stain is to their liking. As for our finishing team visiting the home, that is always an option for homeowners if they are unsure, our team would be happy to step in and assist regarding any detail of a project we take on with our clients.
  
  Our next step would be to make an appointment with you to go over the product to the approved sample with you to determine what we do next for the outcome to agreeable to both of us.  May we call and get that appointment set up?
  
  Thanks,
  
  ***************
  - Account Representative
  
  Loudoun Stairs **************** ave ************,** 20132
  www.loudounstairs.com
  Office - *******************
  cell - **********
  fax - **********
  
  
  From: ***********************@*****.com>
  Sent: Monday, April 10, 2023 8:23 PM
  To: ***** **** <***********************************>
  Subject: Re: Materials Delivered
  
  Hi *****,
  Sorry I wasnt here. Mom said you stopped by and said the sample is close to what is delivered.
  
  It sounds like youre trying to improve service so if I were to make 2 suggestions moving forward -
  
  1.Provide a larger sample or have stain swtaches that can be brought out when doing the quote as a starting point. A small piece as a sample is very hard determine if its the correct stain. Laying down a large piece of wood really shows it more accurately. Maybe include that cost that in your future quotes.
  
  2.Send out a stain specialist to look at it. We are not the professionals and do not have the expertise.
  
  Hope that helps,
  *************
  
  Sent from my ******
  
  On Apr 10, 2023, at 12:53 PM,*************** <***********************************>wrote:
  
  Okay, thank you!
  
  From: ******@*****.com>
  Sent: Monday, April 10, 2023 12:49 PM
  To: ***** **** <***********************************>
  Subject: Re: Materials Delivered
  
  Hi *****,
  I completely forgot my son has a DR appt at 2:30 in Sterling.  My mom will be here however and will let you in to take a look at the materials.
  Regards,
  *****
  
  On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 12:22:37 PM EDT, ***** **** <***********************************>wrote:
  
  
  Good afternoon *****,
  
  
  This is following up on the voicemail I just left you. If you have the availability today I would like to stop by while I am in the area this afternoon or tomorrow and check out the materials. If this is doable for you,please let me know!
  
  Thanks,
  
  ***************
  - Account Representative
  
  Loudoun Stairs **************** ave ************, ** 20132
  www.loudounstairs.com
  Office -*******************
  cell - **********
  fax - **********
  
  
  From: *********@*****.com>
  Sent: Monday, April 10, 2023 11:37 AM
  To: ***** **** <***********************************>
  Cc: ************* <**************************************>; ************************************** <**************************************************>;************* <**************************************>
  Subject: Re: Materials Delivered
  
  Great. Just let me know when they are able to come back and pick up the materials.
  Regards
  ****** 
  
  Sent from my ******
  
  On Apr 10, 2023, at 7:09 AM, ***** **** <***********************************>wrote:
  
  Good morning,
  
  Thank you for reaching out. We will begin the process to get the order picked up and confirm with you that day/time once we have communicated with our transportation team. In our cancellation process, we will bring the material back to the warehouse and then refund the material costs.

   On Apr 17,2023 the customer advised they couldn't come up with a good solution and asked us to schedule a date to pick up materials and they did not want half of the deposit and was expecting a full refund. See below

  Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2023 7:03 AM
  To: *********************@*****.com>;*************** <***********************************>
  Cc: ************* <**************************************>;************* <**************************************>
  Subject: Materials Pick up - Loudoun Stairs
  
  Good morning,
  
  Our guys will be there today (04/18/23 ) between 1 pm 2 pm to pick up the materials.
  
  Thanks
  ******
  From: *****@*****.com>
  Sent: Monday, April 17, 2023 8:47 PM
  To: ***** **** <***********************************>
  Cc: ************************************** <**************************************************>;************* <**************************************>;************* <**************************************>
  Subject: Re: Materials Delivered
  
  Good evening *****,
  I was thinking about how to make this all work over the weekend. I cannot come up with a good solution. Please schedule a date to pick up the materials as soon as possible. No, I am not willing to meet half way on my deposit and will be expecting a full refund. 
  Regards,
  Beth 

  On April 18 the spouse of the customer that had been emailing us called stating they wanted full refund.  I went over the signed proposal regarding cancellation and advised we thought it was fair to offer the split on the deposit as we had lost time and material as well on a signed approval of a sample.  We had set the date with the customer to pick up the material.  The spouse stated unless we refund the full amount we cannot pick up the material.  They paid for the material and we can't come pick it up they own the  "f*&^ing wood"!. In the complaint from the customer we note the comment the spouse was met with "rude and condescending employees" but failed to comment on the abusive language used and that "it would be their mission in life to make sure Loudoun Stairs never sees another customer".  ************ posts were made which we elected to not reply as it most often causes a back in forth neither party needs.

  On 5 May we learned of a back charge from our credit card merchant.  The customer disputed the credit card charge and requested full refund.  We have sent our back up and have asked it to be reversed but it has not as of this date.  So not only did the customer keep the materials, they cashed the check we sent representing half of the deposit and reversed the credit card charge for the full deposit. 

  On Sunday May 11th we received the following email from the customer:

  From: ************@*****.com>
  Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2023 8:11 PM
  To: ************* <**************************************>; *************** <***********************************>
  Cc: ************* <**************************************>
  Subject: Re: Materials Pick up - Loudoun Stairs
  
  Good evening,
  We still have the materials left in our garage and are looking to finally resolve this situation.  Can we come to an agreement to receive half of the remaining deposit and you can pick up the materials?
  Regards,
  *******

   5/17/23 - I called the customer today and left a message when there was no answer. The customer returned my call at 4:13 pm.  The customer said would like to come to an agreement they really wanted to just resolve the situation and have the materials picked up so they are not walking over them in the garage.  I replied that I was confused.  The customer asked why.  I explained we sent the split on the deposit.  The customer acknowledged and thanked us for sending the check.  I then advised the credit card company used to place the deposit had been contacted to process a reimbursement.  The customer was not aware the spouse had done that.  I then explained the last words spoken by the spouse is that we were not to pick up the material because "they owned the wood" (preferred not to use the expletive the spouse used).  The customer was not aware of that either.  The customer explained the spouse travels a lot and something may have been missed in the emails as that is how they communicate a lot re the multiple things going on.  We advised the customer we are seeking a resolution to the situation as well.  The customer said would we be able to use the material in the garage.  We replied no as it was stained with a custom color produced specifically for their project, however, I know it would probably need to be sawn into pieces for them to remove and we would be happy to send a truck to pick it up if preferred.  We advised we do seek satisfaction for both sides.  The customer said it would be discussed with the spouse and the customer would let us know.  I also advised we have contacted our credit card company and have asked them to reverse the reimbursement and have sent them our back up.  The customer told me to have a nice evening and the call ended.

  Would the BBB please reach out to us and any other businesses reading this and tell us how we could have handled this differently?